Uk Addresses Not Correct Information. (State / Province) Field.

phireuk · May 16, 2015

The UK counties in blesta are not correct. Posted in the bugs forum, but told not a bug and the thread was closed. But is actually a bug, because there is no way to add a customer correct address to Blesta if they live in the UK.

As has been pointed out to me, Blesta uses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2:GB

A standard which is not currently used for addresses in the UK, and is incompatible.

The UK uses The UK postal system not Switzerland's ISO sysetm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_counties_of_the_United_Kingdom

Saying we use ISO standard for UK is like saying we have Blesta translated into Greek but used the Latin alphabet.

Due to using ISO standard, blesta has an incomplete mix of some counties, some countries and some local councils in the "State / Province" address field.

For example. I Live in Sheffield. The county is South Yorkshire (not listed in Blesta) (blesta lists the city council (sheffield))

London is the worst example, The county of London is not on the list either, and London appears to have been divided into political local borough council seats. For example Lambeth, Barking and Dagenham, Hackney. Additionally the list is not even complete, it has some counties, some boroughs and countries too (England). Dividing London for example into Lambeth, Barking and Dagenham, Hackney is fine but messy I guess (Address line 2 would normally be the correct place for Lambeth.), but if it's going to be done the way it is currently, where is Chelsea, Kensington & Finsbury?

London falls into;

Kent
Essex

Middlesex
Hertfordshire
Surrey

London (County) which includes "City of London" (Which is not actually London the city, it's very small area inside London)

Dividing the UK into political local boroughs instead of counties, is not ideal, as there will be plenty of people that don't even know what local council they fall under.

I understand a degree of local knowledge is needed, and If you guys are from the states the data is taken form elsewhere.. And even if you are from the UK it's confusing. It gets more confusing though, because some areas are Special postal towns. These are places that don't need a county (but you can add one if you wish).

London, Sheffield & Bristol are all examples of special postal towns. For example, these are places that a letter will get delivered to whether the county is present on an envelope or not. EG

1 Station Road

Sheffield

S1 1SS

is the same as

1 Station Road

Sheffield

South Yorkshire

S1 1SS

But in Blesta, the only way to write the address is

1 Station Road

Sheffield

S1 1SS

which will produce the address

1 Station Road

Sheffield

SHF

S1 1SS

The only way to sort this for the UK is to

add the correct list of counties
remove the 3 letter province code, and display the full name here (South Yorkshire),
Optional (rename Zip code to Postcode)
Optional (rename state / province to county)
Optional but not advised (make county (state / province) field optional for customers)

Provided these 2 rules are followed, Blesta can then store correct UK addresses in 95% of cases, and the other 5% will have a duplicate line eg (London in London)

It's important from my perspective, because in many cases it's not possible for a customer to add the correct address to their profile. Hopefully it's possible to manually edit the info. But for those that are interested here is the correct list of UK counties.

(England)

Avon
Bedfordshire
Berkshire
Buckinghamshire
Cambridgeshire
Cheshire
Cleveland
Cornwall
County Durham
Cumbria
Derbyshire
Devon
Dorset
East Sussex
Essex
Gloucestershire
Hampshire
Herefordshire
Hertfordshire
Isle of Wight
Kent
Lancashire
Leicestershire
Lincolnshire
London             (London boroughs should be completed on address line 2 including "City of London")
Merseyside
Middlesex
Norfolk
Northamptonshire
Northumberland
North Humberside
North Yorkshire
Nottinghamshire
Oxfordshire
Rutland    (optional but best to include)
Shropshire
Somerset
South Humberside
South Yorkshire
Staffordshire
Suffolk
Surrey
Tyne and Wear
Warwickshire
West Midlands
West Sussex
West Yorkshire
Wiltshire
Worcestershire

(Northern Ireland)

County Antrim
County Armagh
County Down
County Fermanagh
County Londonderry
County Tyrone

(Scotland)

Aberdeenshire
Angus
Argyll
Ayrshire
Banffshire
Berwickshire
Caithness
Clackmannanshire
Dumfriesshire
Dunbartonshire
East Lothian
Fife
Inverness-shire
Isle of Arran
Isle of Barra
Isle of Benbecula
Isle of Bute
Isle of Canna
Isle of Coll
Isle of Colonsay
Isle of Cumbrae
Isle of Eigg
Isle of Gigha
Isle of Harris
Isle of Iona
Isle of Islay
Isle of Jura
Isle of Lewis

(Wales)

Clwyd
Dyfed
Gwent
Gwynedd
Mid Glamorgan
South Glamorgan
Powys
West Glamorgan

If the developers are not wanting to concede this is a bug (the bug being using an incompatible standard) then is there a way to manually edit the php files?

Michael · May 16, 2015

Again why post another thread? It's stated Blesta uses the ISO for everything from USA, Greece, Spain, UK, Australia, and if Jupiter had places on it they would also comply with the International Organization for Standardization and you can't do or change anything. Unless you moan to the people who make the standardizations for the UK.

Moan to them not Blesta. It's the STANDARD for a reason.

ISO (International Organization for Standardization) is an independent, non-governmental membership organization and the world's largest developer of voluntary International Standards.

We are made up of our 163 member countries who are the national standards bodies around the world, with a Central Secretariat that is based in Geneva, Switzerland. Learn more about our structure and how we are governed.

What are standards?

International Standards make things work. They give world-class specifications for products, services and systems, to ensure quality, safety and efficiency. They are instrumental in facilitating international trade.

ISO has published more than 19 500 International Standards covering almost every industry, from technology, to food safety, to agriculture and healthcare. ISO International Standards impact everyone, everywhere.

Don't like it make your own all you have to do is edit the states database.

phireuk · May 16, 2015

Again why post another thread? It's stated Blesta uses the ISO for everything from USA, Greece, Spain, UK, Australia, and if Jupiter had places on it they would also comply with the International Organization for Standardization and you can't do or change anything. Unless you moan to the people who make the standardizations for the UK.

Moan to them not Blesta. It's the STANDARD for a reason.
ISO (International Organization for Standardization) is an independent, non-governmental membership organization and the world's largest developer of voluntary International Standards.

We are made up of our 163 member countries who are the national standards bodies around the world, with a Central Secretariat that is based in Geneva, Switzerland. Learn more about our structure and how we are governed.

What are standards?

International Standards make things work. They give world-class specifications for products, services and systems, to ensure quality, safety and efficiency. They are instrumental in facilitating international trade.

ISO has published more than 19 500 International Standards covering almost every industry, from technology, to food safety, to agriculture and healthcare. ISO International Standards impact everyone, everywhere.
Don't like it make your own all you have to do is edit the states database.

Opened another thread because the other one was closed without debate. ISO is not a standard used in the UK. They still call it GB, and the country is UK. It's not been GB since the year 1707.

If a data source used is old hat, defunct or incorrect. Don't use it. The EU states on their website ISO standards should not be used for UK and Greece. Because it's wrong. It's a bug in the data used and should be raised as a bug.

Thanks for the heads up about all i need to do is edit the database. I will do so.

but you are being defensive about blesta, rather than being open to the fact it's not ideal. Because you're from the UK too... and be honest, have you ever had a single letter in your life that has a 3 letter ISO code on the address and no county? The royal mail were famous for getting the letter there no matter how. You could just put a slice of toast in a letterbox with the postcode, house number and a stamp. Chances were the slice of toast would get to the address, but the Royal mail was privatised last year, so the good old days are over, and now they demand correctly formulated address.

A good proportion of my customers still like to use a phone and fax. And I've already had my first customer ask for paper billing. I'm not having a dig a blesta, just pointing out, the one size fits all address system does not fit the UK very well at all. The suggestion is designed to make blesta better. It was not my concern to think off the development time that would be needed to implement the changes, just that it would be an improvement.

Michael · May 16, 2015

Opened another thread because the other one was closed without debate. ISO is not a standard used in the UK. They still call it GB, and the country is UK. It's not been GB since the year 1707.

If a data source used is old hat, defunct or incorrect. Don't use it. The EU states on their website ISO standards should not be used for UK and Greece. Because it's wrong. It's a bug in the data used and should be raised as a bug.

Thanks for the heads up about all i need to do is edit the database. I will do so.

but you are being defensive about blesta, rather than being open to the fact it's not ideal. Because you're from the UK too... and be honest, have you ever had a single letter in your life that has a 3 letter ISO code on the address and no county? The royal mail were famous for getting the letter there no matter how. You could just put a slice of toast in a letterbox with the postcode, house number and a stamp. Chances were the slice of toast would get to the address, but the Royal mail was privatised last year, so the good old days are over, and now they demand correctly formulated address.

A good proportion of my customers still like to use a phone and fax. And I've already had my first customer ask for paper billing. I'm not having a dig a blesta, just pointing out, the one size fits all address system does not fit the UK very well at all. The suggestion is designed to make blesta better. It was not my concern to think off the development time that would be needed to implement the changes, just that it would be an improvement.

We're known as Great Britain and always have been. G(reat) B(ritain) Why change something people know, even people who send me mail from aboard mix from GB or UK, the post still gets to my door with the postman and if they can do it I'm sure you can cope with it. And also what currency do we use here? UKP? United Kingdom Pound or is it's GBP which stands for Great British Pound.. Why is it Great British because it's from Great Britain.

As for EU states on their website? Only on: http://publications.europa.eu/code/pdf/370000en.htm and we'll be out of the EU soon so that will be null and void.

It's up to people I've had people who are lazy and put WAR, UK, and Warwickshire, United Kingdom, or West Midlands, UK. Which I don't class myself from the West Midlands I say Warwickshire, but if someone doesn't know where that is it's the West Midlands near Birmingham.

Who gives a dam in the UK? No-one and the royal mail use the "Post Code" that's all they use and the first line of the address.

phireuk · May 16, 2015

We're known as Great Britain and always have been. G(reat) B(ritain) Why change something people know, even people who send me mail from aboard mix from GB or UK, the post still gets to my door with the postman and if they can do it I'm sure you can cope with it. And also what currency do we use here? UKP? United Kingdom Pound or is it's GBP which stands for Great British Pound.. Why is it Great British because it's from Great Britain.

As for EU states on their website? Can you link to it as I can't find it nor when I search it on europa.eu/index_en.htm.

It's up to people I've had people who are lazy and put WAR, UK, and Warwickshire, United Kingdom, or West Midlands, UK. Which I don't class myself from the West Midlands I say Warwickshire, but if someone doesn't know where that is it's the West Midlands near Birmingham.

Who gives a dam in the UK? No-one and the royal mail use the "Post Code" that's all they use and the first line of the address.

The technical definition Great Britain is the name of the main Island, and United Kingdom is the name of the country. It's the same as Holland vs Netherlands. The country is Netherlands, and Holland is simply the biggest region.

here's the EU link

http://publications.europa.eu/code/pdf/370000en.htm

Excluding Cameron and Fararge I've never heard anyone from UK call it "Great Britain" . Apart from the fact it's not the name of our country, it's embarrassing. Great? Is there anywhere else that's so weird? How about Mega Macedonia, Or Fantastic Finland... What about Awesome Australia or Super Spain.

Michael · May 16, 2015

The technical definition Great Britain is the name of the main Island, and United Kingdom is the name of the country. It's the same as Holland vs Netherlands. The country is Netherlands, and Holland is simply the biggest region.

here's the EU link

http://publications.europa.eu/code/pdf/370000en.htm

Excluding Cameron and Fararge I've never heard anyone from UK call it "Great Britain" . Apart from the fact it's not the name of our country, it's embarrassing. Great? Is there anywhere else that's so weird? How about Mega Macedonia, Or Fantastic Finland... What about Awesome Australia or Super Spain.

Most people in the UK call it Great Britain because we are British people and we are proud of our country. The UK is the name for the four countries together, but we are Great Britain. And hopefully in 2016 we will be out of the European Union so the European crap doesn't matter to us.

phireuk · May 16, 2015

Most people in the UK call it Great Britain because we are British people and we are proud of our country. The UK is the name for the four countries together, but we are Great Britain. And hopefully in 2016 we will be out of the European Union so the European crap doesn't matter to us.

Anyway...

Just editing the database is not possible, because the state can only be 3 letters. Changing to larger Varchar code length in mysql is possible, but then when you choose an edited state / county in blesta, the code will only allow 3 char maximum no matter what the you choose in the database .

so even if editing the database, stuck with 3 letter code for the county.

Michael · May 17, 2015

Anyway...

Just editing the database is not possible, because the state can only be 3 letters. Changing to larger Varchar code length in mysql is possible, but then when you choose an edited state / county in blesta, the code will only allow 3 char maximum no matter what the you choose in the database .

so even if editing the database, stuck with 3 letter code for the county.

Can't find the file but there's a file in Blesta where you can remove the "code" and place the "name" nothing is impossible with Blesta..

phireuk · May 17, 2015

Can't find the file but there's a file in Blesta where you can remove the "code" and place the "name" nothing is impossible with Blesta..

Yes. it's very flexible

app\models\states.php looks promising

Bloory · May 17, 2015

The ideal of course would be to have postcode lookup. The reason, surely for recording the address is either a) to mail the customer something, to let HMRC know who you are trading with and c) to send the police round. In this case, the ISO matters less than the postcode. Users should at least be able to disable this. Michael, it might be best to keep your political opinions to yourself, if I were a pro-eu customer I might decide not to trade with you?

Michael · May 17, 2015

Michael, it might be best to keep your political opinions to yourself, if I were a pro-eu customer I might decide not to trade with you?

Doesn't matter to me that's your choice and opinion, but I know a lot of people want our of the Eu, that's why a lot voted UKIP and us, but UKIP was just unlucky.

Blesta Addons · May 17, 2015

Relaxe All.

Blesta should be open To this semilar request , ISO standard Is Not a obligation for All the countries , and a lot of change Is Not updated in this organisation .

My point of view , blesta should override ISO if there are a official source différent from ISO database .

I have see other users complainte about stage/cities exist/not exist un the list un blesta .

My country also has diffence from ISO standard and already requested the correction in old thread .

phireuk · May 19, 2015

The ideal of course would be to have postcode lookup. The reason, surely for recording the address is either a) to mail the customer something, to let HMRC know who you are trading with and c) to send the police round. In this case, the ISO matters less than the postcode. Users should at least be able to disable this. Michael, it might be best to keep your political opinions to yourself, if I were a pro-eu customer I might decide not to trade with you?

Have you changed your setup? or do you use the standard blesta ISO database? I've manually edited the country to UK and the random mix of states, counties and local authorities to the full & correct County list.

Just have to deal with SYK for (South Yorkshire) in front of the postcode. If you know specifically where to change from the 3 letter code to the full State / county, it would be good to know.

I'm pro EU, My wife's family all live in Crimea, and a lot of friends were on Maidan Square in Kyiv. So I see the bigger picture, and know friends of friends that have already died for the EU... it's strange to see so much anti EU sentiment, after all the main founding aim of the EU has been a 100% success. No war in europe, by containing nationalism, unforunatly the side effect is culture homoganisation, but we knew that when we signed up. The ironic thing is if we left the EU, Scotland would 100% leave the UK and then blesta will need to update the database, because ISO won't.

Max · May 19, 2015

Who gives a dam in the UK? No-one and the royal mail use the "Post Code" that's all they use and the first line of the address.

Yes, the automated sorting systems of the post offices in most countries scan for anything that looks like a postal code in the adress.

Which can a problem if there is some kind of weird 3 character code taken from that ISO standard for political subdivisions (that has nothing to do with postal mail addressing) that looks a bit similar to a postal code in it... :rolleyes:

*mumbles something about a 2013 feature request for configurable international adress formats per country*

Michael · May 19, 2015

Yes, the automated sorting systems of the post offices in most countries scan for anything that looks like a postal code in the adress.

Which can a problem if there is some kind of weird 3 character code taken from that ISO standard for political subdivisions (that has nothing to do with postal mail addressing) that looks a bit similar to a postal code in it...

*mumbles something about a 2013 feature request for configurable international adress formats per country*

Haha Post codes are mostly 6 digits LL46 2UN was an old one of mine, B49 6BE is my current one, no machine can mix a three letters for a post code. 1/2 letters three numbers and two letters.

Max · May 19, 2015

Haha Post codes are mostly 6 digits LL46 2UN was an old one of mine, B49 6BE is my current one, no machine can mix a three letters for a post code. 1/2 letters three numbers and two letters.

In The Netherlands postal codes are in the format "1234 AB"

That doesn't prevent the system from getting confused if there are additional character codes added to the address though.

I know, because the postal services here attach a sticker like this to your mail if delivery has been delayed, because it had to be manually processed:

Occasionally receive those on mailings from the USA, where the sender's software added some kind of invented state code (like XX) to the address on the same line as the postal code.

The sticker suggests you contact the sender and tell him to put a properly formatted address on the envelop next time.

Michael · May 19, 2015

In The Netherlands postal codes are in the format "1234 AB"

That doesn't prevent the system from getting confused if there are additional character codes added to the address though.

I know, because the postal services here attach a sticker like this to your mail if delivery has been delayed, because it had to be manually processed:

Occasionally receive those on mailings from the USA, where the sender's software added some kind of invented state code (like XX) to the address on the same line as the postal code.

The sticker suggests you contact the sender and tell him to put a properly formatted address on the envelop next time.

Trust TNT to be annoying lol I used to like them here too.

ldavies283 · June 16, 2015

(Wales)

Clwyd

Dyfed

Gwent

Gwynedd

Mid Glamorgan

South Glamorgan

Powys

West Glamorgan

For the record - even this is not correct - the ISO standard is: IE:

Blaenau Gwent

Bridgend

Caerphilly

Cardiff

Carmarthenshire

Ceredigion

Conwy

Denbighshire

Flintshire

Gwynedd

Isle of Anglesey

Merthyr Tydfil

Monmouthshire

Neath Port Talbot

Newport

Pembrokeshire

Powys

Rhondda Cynon Taf

Swansea

Torfaen

Vale of Glamorgan

Wrexham

If you mentioned I lived in Dyfed - that would have been 23 Years ago! Hurrah for standards

The only certainty is nothing is perfect so the ability to edit the Counties/States would be ideal and the ability to have a >3 char limit for the state is a bit odd

Uk Addresses Not Correct Information. (State / Province) Field.

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