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Newbie Seeking Resources


Mack

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Thanks to anyone who takes a moment to point me in the right direction. I'm an IT professional, a web developer for many years, so pretty familiar with foundational IT concepts. I know a thousand software titles. I usually find them easy to figure out, using the UI and manual.

I'm not used to using forums, and bothering helpful people with a laundry list of trivial questions; rather, I'm used to looking up answers for myself, but not finding the means in the case of Blesta.

I chose Blesta because the demo made it seem very intuitive. But after working with it for a few days, I'm finding it's not easy to figure out at all. While the public UI may be intuitive once it's set up, the owner UI isn't intuitive at all. The documentation just doesn't seem to exist. I've already spent dramatically more time trying to figure it out than any other software title (aside from programming languages) that I've ever worked with. I'm finding the Blesta user manual is incomplete (simply restating the obvious), and the developer manual isn't appropriate to navigating the owner UI, and searching the forums on the hope that my issues have already been answered has proved futile on the first few attempts.

So I'm short on resources. Do I really have to depend on asking questions in the forums? (If so, it will take me months to resolve all the issues before I can launch, and surely I'll wear out my welcome before then.) Are there no complete manuals? Are there any orientation videos?

Here's a list of some of my problems, each of them trivial by themselves. I'm not expecting point-by-point answers in this context, but this will give you an idea of the kind of manual-incompleteness I'm referring to:

* "Merchant" gateways apparently means gateways that support in-page credit card numbers, without referring users away to a third-party website to enter their credit card number. Confirmation?
* Namecheap support doesn't know anything about the Blesta Namecheap module. Does it support SSL certs, or only domreg?
* I can't test the Namecheap module until Namecheap approves my account, which takes days and dollars. How many more testing obstacles will I encounter?
* The Namesilo module in the marketplace is marked "beta". Has anyone used it, so they can comment on it's reliability?
* If I were to download a module from the marketplace, how would I install it? (The readme file is as incomplete as the user manual.)
* Is there any way to turn Support Tickets on, but Knowledgebase off? ("Installed plugins/Support Manager" doesn't have a "manage" button.)
* Is "coupons" the only way to a apply a sign-up discount? (It seems a little laborious from the public UI perspective.)
* From the public UI, if someone clicks "Empty Cart", then "Continue Shopping", which order form are they returned to? (It appears they're returned to the "choose your hosting plan" form I created. Do I have to put all products including domreg in one package group together, so they will appear at that top level?)

Again, I don't really expect point by point answers, as there is too much information. Rather I need more resources where I can look up answers to these and the dozens of more questions that are likely to arise as I start my new business. Where are the resources?

Thanks to anyone who can offer me a morsel of wisdom that might make this journey more time-efficient for me.

--Mack

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57 minutes ago, Mack said:

* "Merchant" gateways apparently means gateways that support in-page credit card numbers, without referring users away to a third-party website to enter their credit card number. Confirmation?

Correct, and non-merchants take customers to their own gateway page to enter their details.

57 minutes ago, Mack said:

* Namecheap support doesn't know anything about the Blesta Namecheap module. Does it support SSL certs, or only domreg?

It doesn't support SSL at the moment in time it is planned and can be seen in the module code itself. But I'm not a developer sorry.

58 minutes ago, Mack said:

* I can't test the Namecheap module until Namecheap approves my account, which takes days and dollars. How many more testing obstacles will I encounter?

Yeah they are a pain which is why I didn't use Namecheap but OpenSRS. I used to use Logicboxes which is supported by a lot of registrars.

59 minutes ago, Mack said:

* If I were to download a module from the marketplace, how would I install it? (The readme file is as incomplete as the user manual.)

That's down to the developers if they add a readme with information in it. If it's a module you upload it to this folder:

/components/modules/

 

1 hour ago, Mack said:

* Is there any way to turn Support Tickets on, but Knowledgebase off? ("Installed plugins/Support Manager" doesn't have a "manage" button.)

There isn't at the moment you can just remove the knowledge base code out of the portal plugin via: Settings > Company > Plugins > Portal and remove this code:

	<div class="col-md-4 col-sm-6 portal-box">
        <a href="{client_url}plugin/support_manager/knowledgebase/">
            <div class="well">
                <i class="fa fa-info fa-4x"></i>
                <h4>Knowledge Base</h4>
                <p>Have a question? Search the knowledge base for an answer.</p>
            </div>
        </a>
    </div>

 

1 hour ago, Mack said:

* Is "coupons" the only way to a apply a sign-up discount? (It seems a little laborious from the public UI perspective.)

Yes unless you with to override the price (Services widget on the client profile side > Manage > Upgrade / Downgrade [Override Price] section) or you can edit the invoice and add a discount in it's own row. You can use a full url like:

https://licensecart.com/order/config/index/r1soft/?group_id=109&pricing_id=513&coupon=R1SoftAugustSale

 

1 hour ago, Mack said:

* From the public UI, if someone clicks "Empty Cart", then "Continue Shopping", which order form are they returned to? (It appears they're returned to the "choose your hosting plan" form I created. Do I have to put all products including domreg in one package group together, so they will appear at that top level?)

I believe they are taken to summary or the product list page on the order form, I haven't tried it so I'm technically guessing but from memory it's one of them.

The documentation is being expanded soon but they are working on 4.0. But you can ask us (the community) on the forum :).

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1 hour ago, Mack said:

I see. Well, that's all very helpful. Thank you.

Do you know when the expanded documentation and/or the software version 4.0 is expected?

Sadly there's no ETA yet however you can follow the development here: http://dev.blesta.com/projects/CORE/versions/10603 please note that's just the public tasks.

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Thank you Paul, I appreciate that offer. I may take you up on it at some point. I am interested in seeing v4 beta 1 before I make a final decision, to see if it is any more intuitive from the owner's perspective or better documented (though I dislike beta versions, as reliability is important to me). Depending on the timing, I may want to see v4 before making a final decision, since I have already bought it.

However, based on what I know now, I'm leaning toward building my own hosting webware. Since there are less than 20 API functions I'll need, it appears that I can create a more user-intuitive idiot-proof solution for my clients by engineering my own solution. Even if I did completely figure out Blesta, I would not be able to simplify my customers' user experience beyond the limits of the software design.

I have absolutely no reason for confidence at this point that a Blesta solution would enable me to create a simple UX for them. Simplicity rules. My clients will subscribe with me because I make it absolutely easy for them to do so. Or they will go elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, Mack said:


I have absolutely no reason for confidence at this point that a Blesta solution would enable me to create a simple UX for them. Simplicity rules. My clients will subscribe with me because I make it absolutely easy for them to do so. Or they will go elsewhere.

Absolutely. But that's why I also stuck with Blesta. I've had a license for years, but only recently started getting it developed and ready to be migrated to. You can make the actual order forms pretty simple. You can customize the client area theme to be very simple (although some annoying limits exist  - Paul said those are being looked at). 

Don't underestimate how hard it is to create a hosting automation panel. At my previous company, it took us over 4 years and an engineering team of 10+ people to develop something, and even then it wasn't close to perfect. A lot of UX/UI issues, bugs galore, feature creep, having it function well for multiple departments. It was a massive headache and a huge money pit. Even the import process, which we built ourselves, had many glitches, and this after hundreds of dry run tests. 

 In my opinion, with hindsight being 20/20, we could have taken an off-the-shelf solution, like Blesta, strip it of everything except the billing core, and build from it. 

The reason I stick with Blesta now is that the code is open. If something were to happen to Blesta, for whatever reason, I wouldn't need to get everything recoded, changing database schemas, importing hundreds of thousands of database lines and tables, services.. anyway you get the picture. And in the meantime, I pay them a very small yearly amount, and they update the software. 

You can read some of my posts in this forum. I feel I'm very fair in my criticism of what Blesta does wrong, but at the same time, it's not all bad and horrible. It's a decent system, and right now, as it stands, it's up to you to develop it into what you want. It takes a bit of money and time, but it can be done. Just don't underestimate how hard it is to build your own billing system :) 

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Thanks, AnthonyL, for your hindsight.

Your arguments in favor of Blesta would make sense to me if it were marketed as a development platform, not so much considering that it was marketed (at least to me) as an off-the-shelf software title. Perhaps I expected too much from it. I select development platforms very differently than I select off-the-shelf software. (I already have development platforms that I'm proficient with.)

Based on what I know now, and especially based on your comment immediately above, I feel baited and switched.

Also, while I can see the wisdom in your statement that "reinventing the wheel" may be unwise for a large organization that requires a comprehensive and automated solution, I am a small operation and do not require that. I only have to automate the features that would otherwise cause my clients to hesitate at sign-up; and otherwise find human intervention for administrative follow-up tasks acceptable, because I don't have to pay wages; and growth beyond that paradigm would be a good problem to have.

My idea of "simple" may also include offering fewer options, because I've found typical website owners (and by extension hosting subscribers, I expect) need a simpler experience, not a broader range of options. I expect this design philosophy to contribute to a simpler development experience in the case of an original solution. So I won't be planning a fully-featured or fully-automated system with all the bells and whistles.

It's not a final decision; I will still hang around long enough to evaluate Blesta v4, if it is ready soon and comes with complete documentation (a big "if"); but I think mine is a plausible alternative plan of action in my situation. I have built billing systems before, so I know what I'm getting into.

Again, thanks for taking time to respond.

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I hear you. All good points. Blesta is under developed for the hosting industry. 

Blesta's vision of their software vs. reality is where the problem is. I really believe Blesta thought they could develop the core part of the software, make it all very modular, and then developers would take it from there and offer modules based on demand. 

Reality is that there are only ~5 module developers for Blesta, and the market is so small, they get very little out of making modules. Some modules exist, and make a really good impact on the overall software, but you're basically relying on a single person to extend Blesta to the point you need it to be at. The reason is companies don't want the headaches of having to search out developers for features that the industry expects to be standard in any software release now. So the customer base isn't growing much, which means less developers. A classic catch-22. 

An idea I had a little while back would be for Blesta to partner with developers, get all the code going in the same direction, and implement those modules directly into Blesta, and they pay the developers. I'm not going to assume what the finances of that arrangement would be, but it's an idea. 

One other thing that should be done is really start doing focus groups of actual users, of varying company sizes. And then pivoting in small, quick releases, based on that feedback. One of Blesta's competitors just released a feature... auto-update. Because it was the highest voted feature by their community. I won't get into how ridiculous that kind of feature is, because if you can install the software, you sure can update it. Especially since no one in their right mind would auto-update their billing system. But they spent months of dev time creating this feature and trying to hype it up. Stupid stupid stupid. It shows they didn't really talk to the people running their software and relied on community upvotes instead. The opportunity cost is high. 

I'm going to give Blesta a shot after their initial 4.0 release. This release, from what I can tell is more of a major re-factoring and maintenance release, positioning Blesta for better future updates. So I'm not expecting a lot of critical features to be in it, and I hope you aren't either. Documentation is a separate issue. 

I really do hope Blesta comes to understand their core market segment, which is hosting. It's where it was born. The reason for its existence was the faltering of previous competitors. Get that  industry taken care of first, grow the business, and then look at other industries that are struggling to get by with subpar billing systems and hit them up. Don't try to be a generic be-all billing system yet. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/28/2016 at 5:25 PM, AnthonyL said:

I hear you. All good points. Blesta is under developed for the hosting industry. 

Blesta's vision of their software vs. reality is where the problem is. I really believe Blesta thought they could develop the core part of the software, make it all very modular, and then developers would take it from there and offer modules based on demand. 

Reality is that there are only ~5 module developers for Blesta, and the market is so small, they get very little out of making modules. Some modules exist, and make a really good impact on the overall software, but you're basically relying on a single person to extend Blesta to the point you need it to be at. The reason is companies don't want the headaches of having to search out developers for features that the industry expects to be standard in any software release now. So the customer base isn't growing much, which means less developers. A classic catch-22. 

An idea I had a little while back would be for Blesta to partner with developers, get all the code going in the same direction, and implement those modules directly into Blesta, and they pay the developers. I'm not going to assume what the finances of that arrangement would be, but it's an idea. 

One other thing that should be done is really start doing focus groups of actual users, of varying company sizes. And then pivoting in small, quick releases, based on that feedback. One of Blesta's competitors just released a feature... auto-update. Because it was the highest voted feature by their community. I won't get into how ridiculous that kind of feature is, because if you can install the software, you sure can update it. Especially since no one in their right mind would auto-update their billing system. But they spent months of dev time creating this feature and trying to hype it up. Stupid stupid stupid. It shows they didn't really talk to the people running their software and relied on community upvotes instead. The opportunity cost is high. 

I'm going to give Blesta a shot after their initial 4.0 release. This release, from what I can tell is more of a major re-factoring and maintenance release, positioning Blesta for better future updates. So I'm not expecting a lot of critical features to be in it, and I hope you aren't either. Documentation is a separate issue. 

I really do hope Blesta comes to understand their core market segment, which is hosting. It's where it was born. The reason for its existence was the faltering of previous competitors. Get that  industry taken care of first, grow the business, and then look at other industries that are struggling to get by with subpar billing systems and hit them up. Don't try to be a generic be-all billing system yet. 

 

Oh man.

AnthonyL, you make such good points here that I can't help but to want to reiterate your points, especially with your last point, Blesta's origin being that of a host's billing system. I've been here since I believe 3.x, as I missed the boat on 2.x but I can see Blesta faltering here and there with the uncertainty.

Plus, with so few developers, I've had a lot more difficult time in getting a developer to work with me as a small-time host. The direct competitor to Blesta has loads upon loads upon loads of developers that it's stupid easy to get someone to develop for you on that platform. And cheaper, too.

Which really sucks because Blesta is a great platform to build on as long as you're aware of its limitations and plan on building off the core.

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