Reconsider Changing Pricing For Existing Services Upon Package Pricing Change

[Squidix Web Hosting]

From a business standpoint, this is a very strange way to do things. I don't think any of the other hosting billing systems I've worked with do this, and definitely not as default behavior.

 

Packages and package pricing change all the time - but the vast majority of companies will leave customers on the old pricing when this is done.

 

At the very least, there needs to be an option to override this somehow. It could consist of a setting to automatically establish a price override when a service is ordered (using pricing from the package), and ideally a way to traverse old services and lock their pricing down with an override before changing a package pricing.

[Fantasma]

I think its ridiculous that any currently active services would have their prices changed if you changed the pricing of the package in the main settings -- these 2 things CANNOT BE intertwined in such a way! Thats NUTS!

 

An override at minimum is required!

[Paul]

We have discussed adding the ability to set an override price for a service at the time of order to match that of the package. Then, changing the package price would have no affect on the price of those service. 

 

I'm curious though, what do you do now if you need to raise the price for say, everyone on a particular plan?

[Cody]

If you want to keep existing clients locked in, retire the package (make it restricted or inactive), and clone the package with new pricing for new customers. It's so easy. It literally took me longer to explain that than it takes to do it.

[Blesta Addons]

I see this is from other view . if the product X is contracted for term Y by a client . and you have changed the price for it , then the new client will get the new price and the old client should benifict from the new price when they renew . if we keep them in the old price that mean that we stole them for some money . because we can't sell the orisuct X with term Y and conditions Z with different price . ft this reason all the big companies use another package for the new pricing if they want to let the old client in the old price .

Here is not a technical issue , as a Cody suggest a quick solution , but is a educative and transparency behavior .

I talk about me . I can't sell the same product with term X and the same conditions with different prices , all the client I offer them the same thing .

[Michael]

If you want to keep existing clients locked in, retire the package (make it restricted or inactive), and clone the package with new pricing for new customers. It's so easy. It literally took me longer to explain that than it takes to do it.

 

And that is how I've always done it as we changed from the Universal Module to a custom module, and we had to restrict the packages, clone them edit the module and then remake every service but I didn't have to it just was better in the long run and didn't take much time ever but some people want the billing system to do this and that with a click of a button lol…. or in english Lazy WHMCS users.

[Fantasma]

We have discussed adding the ability to set an override price for a service at the time of order to match that of the package. Then, changing the package price would have no affect on the price of those service. 

 

I'm curious though, what do you do now if you need to raise the price for say, everyone on a particular plan?

 

Why can't this just be implemented and provide the flexibility instead of arguing about how it was done the first time is the best way because of "so and so" that I keep hearing non-stop? How much actual work would it be code this in... theres already price overrides for other things, I have to imagine its similar.

[Cody]

Why can't this just be implemented and provide the flexibility instead of arguing about how it was done the first time is the best way because of "so and so" that I keep hearing non-stop? How much actual work would it be code this in... theres already price overrides for other things, I have to imagine its similar.

 

Why should it be?

[Fantasma]

Why should it be?

 

because the people who pay for your software are asking for it? how about that it wouldnt effect anyone who didnt *want* or *need* to use it, or is an option that increases flexibility, makes your customers happy, and doesnt cause any negative effects to the rest of the customer base -- simply not enough?

 

is it more of a blind following to a certain code that you will not deviate from because "so and so"?

[Squidix Web Hosting]

We have discussed adding the ability to set an override price for a service at the time of order to match that of the package. Then, changing the package price would have no affect on the price of those service. 

 

I'm curious though, what do you do now if you need to raise the price for say, everyone on a particular plan?

 

That still doesn't do it. The bulk of orders are not placed by admins.

 

As to the latter, that's 1000x rarer than the reverse. If anything, that should be the thing that requires manual intervention. What web hosting company does this? I've never seen it. Not once.

[Squidix Web Hosting]

If you want to keep existing clients locked in, retire the package (make it restricted or inactive), and clone the package with new pricing for new customers. It's so easy. It literally took me longer to explain that than it takes to do it.

 

I don't want to wind up with some ridiculous number of packages. If two clients are on the same package, I want them to be on the same package.

 

There is a reason that virtually no other system works like this. To be frank, this way of doing things is crazy.

[Squidix Web Hosting]

Why should it be?

 

Because it makes wayyy more sense than the current setup?

 

Go survey 100 hosting companies and ask them how many times they change package pricing vs how many times they arbitrarily change prices on their existing customers. Who does that? Nobody, that's who.

 

99 to 1, if you're lucky.

 

Not sure where you guys came up with this but it definitely wasn't from asking hosting companies.

[Squidix Web Hosting]

And that is how I've always done it as we changed from the Universal Module to a custom module, and we had to restrict the packages, clone them edit the module and then remake every service but I didn't have to it just was better in the long run and didn't take much time ever but some people want the billing system to do this and that with a click of a button lol…. or in english Lazy WHMCS users.

 

Yeah, I don't use software to prove to the world how cool and non-lazy I am. This is a joke of an argument, give it a rest.

 

I understand based on prior arguments that you enjoy sitting around copying and pasting things but most of us don't.

 

The culture around here is strange to say the least.

[Blesta Addons]

 

 

Go survey 100 hosting companies and ask them how many times they change package pricing vs how many times they arbitrarily change prices on their existing customers. Who does that? Nobody, that's who.

 

99 to 1, if you're lucky.

 

 

 

i don't think ...... there are a lot of companies respect thier old customers by giving them the right to the new pricing .

 

and maybe in some countries what you rae asking is againts commercial laws .

 

but if blesta implement it (for thier clients)  , it should to be as optional settings .

 

EDIT : if blesta has a event for package:edit() , it can be done with a small pluging . when price is changed for the package , fetch all the active services and override price

[Squidix Web Hosting]

 

EDIT : if blesta has a event for package:edit() , it can be done with a small pluging . when price is changed for the package , fetch all the active services and override price

 

99% of companies will not change pricing on old customers. Talk about a way to increase turnover...

 

And yes, this is a very moderate way to do it, and it's one of the solutions I had in mind. When updating the package, choose whether or not to update pricing for pre-existing services.

[Blesta Addons]

99% of companies will not change pricing on old customers. Talk about a way to increase turnover...

 

And yes, this is a very moderate way to do it, and it's one of the solutions I had in mind. When updating the package, choose whether or not to update pricing for pre-existing services.

99% ?! i not agree with that . from experience from more than 12 years , alot of providers update prices for all if the product remain with the same conditions and tem and caracteristiques .

hosting companies laso do that . if you cange the price (increase/decrease) for a tld domain , you will let the old one pay old price than new price ? if you change price for the package hosting X from Y to Z , the old customer remain in the old price for this package ?

and what about if a client find the price for package X in your website is Z and he is paying other amount for it ? what will be your answer ?

the proffetional way is to create another product/package if you want to play with turnover .

[Squidix Web Hosting]

99% ?! i not agree with that . from experience from more than 12 years , alot of providers update prices for all if the product remain with the same conditions and tem and caracteristiques .

hosting companies laso do that . if you cange the price (increase/decrease) for a tld domain , you will let the old one pay old price than new price ? if you change price for the package hosting X from Y to Z , the old customer remain in the old price for this package ?

and what about if a client find the price for package X in your website is Z and he is paying other amount for it ? what will be your answer ?

the proffetional way is to create another product/package if you want to play with turnover .

 

> alot of providers update prices for all if the product remain with the same conditions and tem and caracteristiques .

 

Out of the blue? I don't know who you're dealing with. I never see this. It happens with renewals. But that's not arbitrary. Many of the big companies (godaddy, bluehost, etc) get you on board at a few dollars a month, and bump it up to ~8.99 after first cycle. This should be done with a coupon. Not a package pricing change. It's an entirely different concept and it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

 

I have NEVER had a hosting company come to me out of the blue and say "hey, we're changing your pricing". Despite multiple pricing changes for their packages.

 

> and what about if a client find the price for package X in your website is Z and he is paying other amount for it ? what will be your answer ?

 

That has nothing to do with the technical request I'm making. That's a business question which is my problem. I'm not adapting my business to work around the software. You're arguing a business case which for us (and many others) the fact that we will have to deal with this is a foregone conclusion.

 

> the proffetional way is to create another product/package if you want to play with turnover .

 

It's not another package, conceptually, it's the same exact thing at a different price. It also screws up my reporting and junks up the system with needless packages. Not an option for us.

 

If I want to do a bulk pricing change, that should be the manual action. Blesta has the edge case mixed up with the normal behavior.

 

[Max]

Packages and package pricing change all the time - but the vast majority of companies will leave customers on the old pricing when this is done.

 

Do wonder about that.

Maybe have a poll?

 

 

I see this is from other view . if the product X is contracted for term Y by a client . and you have changed the price for it , then the new client will get the new price and the old client should benifict from the new price when they renew . if we keep them in the old price that mean that we stole them for some money . because we can't sell the orisuct X with term Y and conditions Z with different price . ft this reason all the big companies use another package for the new pricing if they want to let the old client in the old price .

 

 

Same culture here.

Prices have been going down over the years, and if we didn't extend that to existing customers they would think we are screwing them over, and act accordingly.

Rather lose short term profit, than a long term customer.

Different prices per customer do are common here if orders go through some kind of quote process, but not so for businesses that have prices listed on their site.

[Squidix Web Hosting]

Do wonder about that.

Maybe have a poll?

 

 

 

Same culture here.

Prices have been going down over the years, and if we didn't extend that to existing customers they would think we are screwing them over, and act accordingly.

Rather lose short term profit, than a long term customer.

Different prices per customer do are common here if orders go through some kind of quote process, but not so for businesses that have prices listed on their site.

 

> Maybe have a poll?

 

Any poll done here is not going to be representative of the general public. We're all early adopters and tinkerers, just look at this thread.

 

> Prices have been going down over the years, and if we didn't extend that to existing customers they would think we are screwing them over, and act accordingly.

 

No, in the real world 95% of people won't say a word.

 

But let's not turn this into an argument about how companies should and should not operate in order to work within the confines of the software in its current state.

 

There is a very valid case for this type of flexibility, and the fact that every other system makes this easy speaks for itself.

[activa]

> Prices have been going down over the years, and if we didn't extend that to existing customers they would think we are screwing them over, and act accordingly.

 

No, in the real world 95% of people won't say a word.

 

 

if you are in a competitive and huge market , your client will say 1000 word .

 

as you say i not  thread for conavinting each other , but just to talk about some cases .

 

in the end , if blesta will add this, then it should be a option  disabled by default .

[Squidix Web Hosting]

if you are in a competitive and huge market , your client will say 1000 word .

 

as you say i not  thread for conavinting each other , but just to talk about some cases .

 

in the end , if blesta will add this, then it should be a option  disabled by default .

 

That's fine, it should just be available.

 

I'm in a very competitive market and we have hundreds of clients paying different rates, some higher than package some lower. I can count on one hand the number of times we've been approached about it.

[Fantasma]

if you are in a competitive and huge market , your client will say 1000 word .

 

as you say i not  thread for conavinting each other , but just to talk about some cases .

 

in the end , if blesta will add this, then it should be a option  disabled by default .

 

No one cares if its enabled or disabled by default. What MATTERS is the ability to run your business with as much automation and flexibility as possible -

YOU KNOW, THE REASON YOU LOOK & PAY FOR A BILLING SYSTEM, but that's it... you know, not that important.     

[Fantasma]

And that is how I've always done it as we changed from the Universal Module to a custom module, and we had to restrict the packages, clone them edit the module and then remake every service but I didn't have to it just was better in the long run and didn't take much time ever but some people want the billing system to do this and that with a click of a button lol…. or in english Lazy WHMCS users.

 

Yeah, you, me, every current and past Blesta client - the ones who pay for this software with the hopes of increasing business flexibility, capability, speed, convenience, etc... WE PAY FOR THIS SOFTWARE BECAUSE WE'VE DECIDED THAT WE ARE NOT LAZY AND WANT TO BE LOCKED INTO 1 WAY STREET of business accounting and billing and hey, if you don't fit on this street, screw off, you dont want this software, its too good for you.

 

I'm so un-lazy in fact, I'm thinking about hiring a team of 10 people and using paper notepads and pencils (cant use pens, they will make typos) and just pigeon carrier manually tracked/generated invoices on every day of the month (because I also do not have a singular rebill date -- that would be being lazy!)

 

 

Wake up and smell the ridiculousness.

[Squidix Web Hosting]

Yeah, you, me, every current and past Blesta client - the ones who pay for this software with the hopes of increasing business flexibility, capability, speed, convenience, etc... WE PAY FOR THIS SOFTWARE BECAUSE WE'VE DECIDED THAT WE ARE NOT LAZY AND WANT TO BE LOCKED INTO 1 WAY STREET of business accounting and billing and hey, if you don't fit on this street, screw off, you dont want this software, its too good for you.

 

I'm so un-lazy in fact, I'm thinking about hiring a team of 10 people and using paper notepads and pencils (cant use pens, they will make typos) and just pigeon carrier manually tracked/generated invoices on every day of the month (because I also do not have a singular rebill date -- that would be being lazy!)

 

 

Wake up and smell the ridiculousness.

 

We should just carve each package's details into a stone. When someone comes to the site, they fill in their address and pay $11 to have the stones shipped (thank god for USPS flat rate). Then they can pick one and carve in the configurable options and send it back.

[Cody]

Added CORE-1755 to look into this task.